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Tom Smothers
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Time has been an essential ingredient in the Smothers Brothers' success.
They have been considered ahead of their time, masters of timing and
practitioners of timeless comedy. Now as they mark over 42 years in show
business, the Smothers Brothers are being saluted as time-honored legends
whose lengthy career has surpassed all other comedy teams in history.
With their singular blend of comedic and musical talents, the irrepressible
brothers have made a sweeping impact on diverse generations of fans. Such
lasting power is a testimonial to their intuitive humor, natural warmth,
superlative showmanship and the pure unadulterated joy they bring to audiences
of all ages.
The contributions Tom and Dick have made to the entertainment world throughout
their careers are so highly respected that the Museum of Broadcasting in
New York produced a retrospective and seminar on their work, an honor not
lightly accorded. On the other coast, Hollywood ceremoniously distinguished
them with one of its most valuable awards: a star on the noted Hollywood
Walk of Fame. The "Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour" is now studied in universities
across the country as an important factor in the revolutionary changes undergone
in the U. S. during the 1960's.
In our exclusive interview with Tom Smothers, he discusses the evolution
of their act, their early days in San Francisco, and the challenges the brothers
faced as the entertainment industry's free speech "poster boys" during the
turbulent 1960's.
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Interview Topics
The Purple Onion/San Francisco
Days
The evolution of their act
Career accomplishments
The Comedy Hour and ensuing
censorship
Getting around the censors
Comedy as a platform for
politics
His view concerning
censorship and children
Tom Smothers' heroes
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JJM
I wanted to ask you a question about your Purple Onion days in San Francisco.
Where did you hang out in North Beach? Did you ever check out Mort Sahl or
Dave Brubeck at that time?
TS Oh, yes. We worked the Purple Onion in April
of 1959, when we started working regularly there. We were the opening act
for a couple of people, Phyllis Diller and Ronnie Schell and some other people.
I used to take the Gray Line tour on my day off, and I would go to all the
jazz and show places, including the Blackhawk and Finocchio's. I can't remember
all the places but I just loved going to the clubs. I caught Brubeck, yes.
The Purple Onion would be across the street from the Hungry I, and there
would be Mort Sahl and Lenny Bruce, Professor Irwin Corey, the Limelighters,
the Kingston Trio. I used to go over and ask for 8 x 10's and have them sign
them for me. It was great fun. I was 21 and my brother Dick was 20. There
was good music around there then - North Beach was a happening place. I
distinctively remember taking Lenny Bruce water skiing at Strawberry Cove
out in the San Francisco Bay area. We kept kidding Lenny, telling him to
watch out for the sharks. There had just been a shark killing there, and
he had done some material on it, and it happened that a person in the audience's
friend had just been mauled by a shark, and a fight just about took place.
JJM It was a great age for comics…
| TS I remember what a great comedian Professor
Irwin Corey was. He had one of the greatest openings in comedy. He would
take about five minutes before he said his first word. He would take out
a piece of paper and look at it, put it back in his pocket, and go back and
look at the paper again like he had forgotten what was on it. It was so funny.
He was referred to as the "world's foremost authority." I met Pat Paulsen
in San Francisco, at the Purple Onion. Later on in his career, he had one
of the greatest endings in show business. I always thought that would be
great, in fact, to have Irwin Corey start and Paulsen finish. Paulsen's finish
usually took ten minutes. He would tell the audience that he was going to
leave, and it would take about ten minutes for him to say goodbye. He would
drag it out forever.
JJM I was very young at that time, but I can still
remember the impressions they left on me. These guys seemed so different
and their sense of timing drew me in.
TS Professor Irwin Corey had some of the best timing
in the world, and that is something you can't steal. He talked nonsense,
not punch-lines, per se. It was a great performance thing he did and his
timing was impeccable. Pat Paulsen was a master of comedy too. The Smothers
Brothers' strength was not in the content, but how it was said. We had a
couple of our albums, including the Purple Onion album, translated in script
form. It didn't work at all. It is no wonder that writers had a hard time
writing for the Smothers Brothers, because they wrote impressions, but there
was something else. We were at the Purple Onion for the first time for 13
straight weeks. Cruz Luna was a flamenco dancer, and we had auditioned one
Saturday, and they said they liked us and would use us maybe in a month or
two. A week later they called and told us that Luna got sick, would we come
in? So, we filled in, and worked 13 weeks before going off to do a job in
Eureka, California. We came back and did another three or four months. That
was the essence of where we got our professional "chops" done, where we learned
our craft. Sometimes we would do three or four shows a night, little 10-15
minute sets. There were three acts on the show, Ronnie Schell, Phyllis Diller
and the Smothers Brothers. That was a great way to learn what you do. You
learn your craft very rapidly in front of an audience. |
Professor Irwin Corey
Pat Paulsen |
JJM You find out what does and doesn't work
instantaneously.
TS
Yes, right away. Since we were doing three or four shows a night, by the
end of the week we had more shows than most comedians get generally in a
month.
JJM Can you talk a little about how the act
evolved from there? Did you start out playing it straight?
The Smothers Brothers
1963 |
TS We pretty much started out as singers. I
wanted to be a bandleader when I was a youngster, at 10 or 11. I had a band
- clarinet, accordion, drums, piano player, and me, the guitar player. We
played everything in my key. Clarinets were written in Bb, but I didn't care,
he could play it in C! I was always involved in some kind of musical thing,
and Dick and I were in choir in Redondo High School and we had a barbershop
quartet, and started singing other things. We sang "Sh-boom" by the Crewcuts,
and I backed up other singers with guitar. Dick and I started singing with
a trio, along with Bobby Blackmore, and the first three or four months he
was with us. He sang the lead and we did the harmony parts. He decided to
leave, since there was no future in it, and Dick and I took off and went
to Aspen, where we worked at a place called the Limelight, with Judy Collins
and Don Crawford, two folk singers. We learned a couple of songs, a Belafonte
song, and we started doing take-offs on other people's stuff. Judy Collins
would sing a song that took forever. We would do it, and wreck it. Don Crawford
would do the "John Henry" song, we would do a fun version of it. So, we started
to satirize folk singers, and the comedy started evolving. Dick used to say
nothing, I did all the talking. I told him he needed to say something because
it was too hard for me. So, he would write an introduction to a song. Pretty
soon, when I started talking, he would say, "That's not right." Or, "That's
stupid." That was about 70% Dick and about 30% me, as far as the dialogue
goes, and it balanced better that way. I watched Laurel and Hardy and Abbott
and Costello and many of the comedy teams on old television shows. I noticed
that the straight man was the one who did most of the talking, therefore
the comedian had a breather and didn't get overexposed. In 1979 or 1980,
after doing some theatre, we started working again. We changed the balance
of the act around, which has given us some longevity. It let the act "wear"
better. How would Lou Costello be with Abbott? Dick saw Jerry Lewis and I
asked him how the show was. He said it was pretty good but after awhile you
can't help but think he is missing somebody. During the early time of vaudeville,
the straight man was paid more money because it was a skilled position. It
was the one that took the skill. Bud Abbot was a very famous straight man
in vaudeville before he met Lou Costello. He was paid more money, and I can
understand it, although Dickie doesn't get paid more than me. The straight
man is the drummer, the bass player. He is the person who keeps the tempo
going, and keeps it real. If the audience believes the straight man, then
they will believe the comedian. We are the last comedian team, it seems. |
JJM Seinfeld picked up on that a little bit. I know
they had an ensemble, but most often it was an interaction between two
people…
TS I don't know if it picked up on that, but it
was a lot like the "Mary Tyler Moore Show," where he was a reactor more than
an instigator. As far as a working team in clubs, no one is doing it.
JJM You
were the driving energy in terms of keeping it going. You mentioned a little
earlier that some of your cohorts in the business didn't see a future in
it. At that point did you always sense there was a future in it, or were
you mostly driven by your passion for doing it?
| TS I was mostly driven by the fun of doing
it. I saw no farther ahead than the next job. Dick and I were constantly
surprised by the success we had, and had no idea where it was going. We started
in 1959, in April, and we were fired from CBS in April of 1969. We had a
decade of uninterrupted success in all areas - records, television, personal
appearances. Everything was just a big success. That was the high point of
my career, during the Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour. Everything went downhill
after that. We were sort of black-balled, and the work dried up. I became
a kind of poster boy for the First Amendment freedom of speech and got caught
up in that thing, and lost my sense of humor for a while. I ended up doing
some dinner theatre in the mid 70's, and in the late 70's Dickie did some
dinner theatre. I did "Play it Again, Sam," and Dick did "Not Now Darling"
and a couple of other things. Then, we were approached in 1977 to do a Broadway
show and we jumped at it. We didn't play brothers, but it was a wonderful
show called "I Love My Wife," at the Ethel Barrymore Theatre. Right across
the street was Jack Lemmon in "Tribute." Next door was Claudette Colbert
and Rex Harrison in a play…It was wonderful, a whole new life that we
had never experienced before. At times when I was studying, I would watch
daytime television and watch Abbott and Costello and Laurel and Hardy. In
1980, Robin Williams asked us to come down and do a benefit for battered
children at a Hollywood night club. Prior to the performance, Dick and I
listened to an album of ours because we hadn't done our act in four or five
years. It went over pretty well, so we decided to try it again. We tried
to find an agent, but no one was interested, and we thought we were dead
in the water. Finally, someone said they would take us on. So, we started
opening for people in Vegas, and started doing comedy clubs around the country.
We wound up doing about 300 dates a year on the road. Then, we got a commercial
for Magnavox, and for four years we were national spokesmen for them. That
led to a Smothers Brothers 20th reunion show. We performed 19 specials, and
all of a sudden we are cooking again. So, its been 43 years now. The first
ten years were perfect, the second ten were the dark ages, where we learned
a lot of theatre work to apply to our act, and the third decade was trying
to work our way back into it. Now it's 43 years and we are icons, I guess,
historical figures! People call me and say "Tell me about John Lennon and
Steve Martin," as if I were a repository of information. |
 |
JJM
It shows you that the public is fickle. Many people have a dedication
and drive and don't get any hours in the limelight until later. You guys
certainly found yourself at the forefront of a movement. I wanted to talk
about that a little bit, your battle with the censors and the TV show. Your
show was quite traditional in form and style. Were you surprised to find
yourselves in the middle of this clash of two social movements? Were you
surprised by the censorship that took place?
The Best of the Smothers Brothers |
TS It was all a surprise. Everything amazed
us during the first part of our career. Every project we got we just barely
qualified for. We barely had the skills. It was risk taking all the way from
our first sit-com to the "Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour." When I took
that show, the first sit-com was 32 episodes on CBS, and the writing was
just awful. We had a difficult first night. I had no control, I couldn't
change the writing, I couldn't say anything, so when I was dropped, CBS said
there was a variety show spot open. I said if I take it, I want creative
control over the writing and directors. They said that was fine, thinking
it wouldn't last for a minute. It turned out to be a big hit, and I started
bringing in young writers like Mason Williams, Lorenzo Music, who has done
a lot of voices for Garfield and such, and guitar players and pickers that
I knew. People like Pat Paulsen. We had a say on who we booked on the show,
and it was quite fun. The Vietnam War was starting to heat up, and we were
all in our twenties. There was a point of view that was happening in the
country, and we just reflected it. Rob Reiner came on as director, and everyone
was pretty much young at heart and idealistic. We all agreed to put little
sketches in the show satirizing things, promoting peace. The civil rights
movement was going on, so we had stuff on that. We put a little bit of an
edge into it. I remember when I started the show, I didn't want to be vacuous.
I wanted it to have some content that meant something, that made people think.
Then, when they started censoring, I was surprised. I didn't think they could
do that. All of a sudden I was involved with the FCC, who ruled that I wasn't
doing anything that would jeopardize anyone's license. I started reading
the book on codes and all that stuff, and it became quite gritty - the
confrontation with CBS. Richard Nixon got elected by a very close margin.
If Hubert Humphrey had been elected, perhaps there would have been a much
different story concerning our career. CBS picked up our third season before
the election. After the election, we were filming our second year and they
fired us. It was basically from Nixon on. Even today, there is no prime time
satire. People ask me if I wish I were in television today because I could
say anything I wanted, but I say, what is being said? Nothing is being said.
Once in a while on the fringes, for example, there is Bill Maher, but that
is on late, when a very small percentage of people are watching. Nobody is
saying anything during prime time, particularly about challenging and satirizing
policy. So, it is a strange time to celebrate the first amendment when this
country seems to have taken freedom of speech in another way, with the Howard
Stern's and that kind of thing. That is kind of disappointing. |
JJM The media has a way of segmenting that stuff
now, and basically dissolving it.
TS Yes, putting it on the fringe. Bill Maher got
in trouble for his point of view after the 9/11 attacks. This country is
still walking around in lock-step pretty much. You are not hearing much
criticism. There is a little more legitimate criticism coming out, but
still…
JJM The personality of the leadership has an awful
lot to do with the climate too.
TS Whether Republican or Democrat, as Ralph Nader
said, they are pretty much the same people. They were both paid by Enron
also. Not enough people in this country are holding this government responsible
for what we do around the world. What Enron did to the American shareholders
here, can you imagine what the corporations do to the other countries? Talk
about exploiting people. And then we can't understand why people walk around
muttering about why they hate us.
JJM You did get some pretty edgy stuff on the air
though…
TS Yes, we did get edgy stuff on. At the time,
because on prime time you don't criticize the President or the policy. People
on the streets were doing it, so we reflected it also on our television show,
so we paid the price by being fired. In hindsight, although that was very
painful, years later I get this residual respect from people who tell me
that the show really helped form them, helped expand their thoughts. That
is a good thing.
JJM
The censorship thing…were you ever sure what you could get away with,
or were you just giving it a try to see what would happen?
| TS I was pretty sure of what free speech was,
and I pretty much knew where we could go, and they had an idea of where I
couldn't go. So, we locked horns many many times. We put in red herrings
- things that meant nothing but were very powerful - and then we would take
them out and argue with them so other things would get through. During the
60's when the drug culture and grass was around, we would put in little
references that they didn't know just to keep it interesting. There was a
gal named Leigh French on the show in a segment called "Share a little tea
with Goldie." She was a hippie, and she had this little intro she would use
to get to the women. "Good morning ladies, I would like to welcome you as
I always do. Hi." It was so subtle that a lot of people wouldn't get it.
There were some very important things that we said, and there are people
who are still resentful of that, whether hawks or doves, right wing or hippie,
you had to be one or the other, there was no middle ground, kind of like
it is now. It is not a good place to be. |
The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour |
JJM
Dan Rowan of "Laugh-In" once said that his show used politics as a
platform for comedy and the Smothers used comedy as a platform for politics.
Was that accurate?
TS Yes, that is pretty accurate. If politics is
free speech, then that was politics. I am not hearing a lot of comedians
speaking out in righteous indignation, but you hear it in music - in folk
music. A song is a great way to say things. You put it in a song and all
of a sudden its art, and it has a message. We had no characters to hide behind.
It was Tommie Smothers and Dickie Smothers. We weren't playing Archie Bunker.
The character can get away with more.
JJM There was a headline in today's paper, "TV Giants
Get Win in Court." A federal appeals panel ruled that cable and broadcast
networks can consolidate now...
TS Deregulation. It is going to end up with two
broadcasters with control. You are not hearing a lot of stuff coming from
networks anymore. The freedom of expression is really on the Internet. That
is where the real stuff is happening. The real caustic, uncensored passions
are certainly not on mainstream broadcasting.
JJM That is one of things we are hearing from a
lot of the people we are talking to. They are saying that the compelling
writing, literature and reporting will be on the Internet.
TS I believe that is true. It is a sad commentary
that we are not hearing on the big things because we have a nation of ignorance.
The masses, based on these polls, you can't help but wonder who are they
interviewing? What is going on here?
JJM I have to admit that sometimes I feel I am on
a skit on a TV program, because all the stuff seems so orchestrated.
TS It sure does to me too, and thinking people
are aware. Good patriots are the people who criticize the country when they
see there is something going wrong. Ones who embrace patriotism in the name
of unity are the opposite. That is that. I still get angry when I read the
papers…Dick and I were not clever enough, as are Bill Maher or Mort
Sahl. We were comedians who have a passion about right and wrong and ethics,
but not clever enough to really place it in our show as much. When we had
our television show, we had a lot of writers, Steve Martin and Rob Reiner
and Mason Williams and many others. We could make a point. Now it is just
Dickie and I, and we have observations in our show. One of our lines has
to do with him catching me in a lie. He catches me, and asks me why I lied.
I say "national policy." It always get a big laugh, no matter what side of
the political spectrum you are on - right or left - most people feel they
are not getting the straight stuff, and that politicians are bought, we know
that.
Anyway, Dickie and I can look back at our work with some pride. So, that
is kind of nice. There are other things I am not so proud of. We could have
done better work, we could have made some moves maybe we didn't. But, overall,
I am pleased with where the Smothers Brothers are. We are in the twilight
of our careers. It's been 43 years. I am 65, my brother is 63, and it has
been a good solid career. A good vaudeville and comedy team with a little
moment on the road where it went beyond comedy and it made a statement.
Otherwise, we are having a good time. We do 100 dates a year, and we will
keep doing it until people stop showing up or we are not funny and we know
it, or we lose our edge.
JJM
You have young children. Has this altered your view on censorship
in any way?
TS Not at all. Things that are being said so freely
are so vacuous. Our kids are going to read and see movies. You go to a PG
movie and you hear the word "asshole" or "fuck" all the time. So, that is
not a problem. At home is where we set the standards. Let's just hope we
get them educated, keep them ethical and encourage them to become truth-seekers.
That is the best thing you can teach your children. To maintain integrity
and keep your word, all of those basic things you are taught in the home.
That is our job. I perform for my kids, and I do a little show for children,
and they love it. Yo-Yo Man, they go crazy for. They like to see two guys
arguing, and so the kids like the show too. We are a family show. In the
last year, we put a ten minute video tape of the show within our concert
performances that gives a retrospective on the Smothers Brothers and some
highlights from the Comedy Hour. For example, Pete Seeger singing "Waist
Deep in the Big Muddy." Overall, it's a good life.
| JJM
One last question. Who would you say your heroes were?
TS The first comedian I saw who had a great impact
on me was George Gobel. I saw him in the early 50's on the "Ed Sullivan Show."
He didn't tell jokes, he just had this wonderful timing. He had a guitar,
and talked about losing his bowling ball. He went to the police station,
and told the cops someone stole his bowling ball, and described it. He was
describing how it was round, and had holes in it. They asked him if the holes
were on the top or the bottom. I was falling on the floor. It was very funny
stuff. He was the first guy that got me interested in comedy. Also, Laurel
and Hardy I loved very much, the way they have stood up to the test of time.
Genuine, wonderful air, a lot of air in there, silent spots. Jack Benny was
the same thing. Political heroes…Ralph Nader still stands out in my
mind as a man who has stayed the course and not been swayed by a lot of things.
Ted Turner is a hero of mine. I like where his head is at. He has a sense
of putting his money where his mouth is. He puts on those Goodwill Games,
and tries to do the best he can to make things better. I like him. Otherwise,
the good people we all recognize, and the good ones right thinking people
know. It is getting harder and harder to find the white hats though, because
everyone is wearing gray. Earlier in our lives, it was pretty clear. We tend
to demonize people and we are quick to apologize for expressing views.
|
George Gobel |
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Dick and Tom Smothers |
"Smothered," a documentary about the censorship struggles of the "Smothers
Brothers Comedy Hour" (1967 - 1969) will be broadcast on Bravo. Air
date is tentatively set for early December, 2002.
This interview took place on February 20, 2002
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Smothers Brothers products at Amazon.com
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If you enjoyed this interview, you may want to read our interview with Lenny Bruce biographer David Skover.
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