|
Robert Cohen co-editor of Reflections on Berkeley in the 1960's
____________________
"Berkeley in the sixties." Depending on your point of view, that phrase may recall thoughts of a place and time to run toward with enthusiasm, or flee from in fear. It was a place where the traditional university curriculum gave way to the students' pursuit of the free exchange of ideas, and was the birthplace of the Free Speech Movement of 1964. The Movement was the event that ignited the first clash of generations in a turbulent, historic decade. Its values shaped who many in America are today, its actions the genesis of the new left and new right. Movement leaders employed tactics learned from the Civil Rights Movement of the south that ultimately resulted in the way the Vietnam war was opposed. Its members went on to become activists in the feminist movement and Vietnam era protests. A key political opponent eventually became President of the United States. New York University historian Robert Cohen, co-editor of The Free Speech Movement: Reflections on Berkeley in the 1960's, visits with us about one of the most celebrated and culturally significant events in 20th century America.
____________________
Interview Topics Connecting with the Civil Rights Movement The role of president Clark Kerr The emergence of Ronald Reagan The stereotyped Berkeley radical The Free Speech Movement's influence of Vietnam protests Women in the Free Speech Movement The Free Speech Movement's defining moments
"Free speech…represents the very dignity of what a human being is…That's what marks us off from the stones and the stars. You can speak freely…It is the thing that marks us as just below the angels." - Mario Savio, 1964 *
The Kingston Trio sing
Where
Have All the Flowers Gone?
____________________
JJM Who was your childhood hero? RC I grew up in New York City during the late sixties and early seventies, at a time when we were organizing against the war. I was heavily influenced by the Civil Rights Movement. I admired Martin Luther King when I was growing up, as well as the students in the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee, in particular Bob Moses. I was also very influenced by the generation of journalists who reported on the Vietnam War, and showed that our government was lying to us about the war, especially reporters such as David Halberstam. I also admired protest music and the people who made it, like Bob Dylan and Marvin Gaye. Those are the people who had the most influence over me. JJM You really followed that into your career, didn't you? RC Yes. My first book, When the Old Left Was Young, is about student protest during the Great Depression, so I have always been interested in student activism. Since I grew up during the Vietnam protest era, I assumed everybody was somewhat politically active in high school. When I went to college in upstate New York, it was kind of jolt to me to find many people weren't active in high school or even in college. It was an unusual political climate, one that was highly polarized by Vietnam. JJM Students for a Democratic Society leader Todd Gitlin said, "A social movement is never simply 'about' its object, but it is always 'about' the deeper identities of the participants who stoke it and shape it." What was the typical identity of a Cal student in 1964? RC I have to answer that question by saying there wasn't one identity at Cal. There were competing subcultures. There was the majority culture, which was the non-activist liberal, as well as a very powerful apolitical part of the campus that was into the traditional view of college life -- the fraternities, the football. The Civil Rights Movement began to create an impetus for the more political culture, and to challenge the political culture on campus. In early 1964, students became active in the movement to end racial discrimination in the Bay area, visible in protests at the Sheraton Palace Hotel, on auto row, in the Lucky grocery stores, and at the Oakland Tribune. There was quite a lot of ferment in the Bay area that was connected to the inspiration provided by the southern Civil Rights Movement. JJM The movement gave them the opportunity to connect with the struggles of the civil rights people.
Keep in mind the variety of perspectives. For example, when the activists were sitting around that police car in Sproul Plaza, preventing the arrest of activist Jack Weinberg, there was almost a riot because the fraternity set was throwing lit cigarettes in to the crowd. They were shouting, "We want the car," in an attempt to get the demonstrators to leave. Thus on campus, there was a radical core of people, a larger liberal sympathetic group, and an anti-activist group. The Civil Rights Movement changed the dynamic between these groups, providing the activist group with a new sense of dynamism. People admired them. Mario Savio, for example, participated in the first demonstration involving civil disobedience at Berkeley in the spring of 1964 -- before the fall Free Speech Movement -- because he was sympathetic to the Movement, but also because he wanted to impress his girlfriend. He eventually said he was a little embarrassed by that, but on the other hand felt that when you try to create an alternative society, you do it by demonstrating that you are committed to alternative values. So, instead of trying to be a football hero or owning a big car, you demonstrate your commitment by getting arrested while protesting racial discrimination. JJM So, what about that philosophy troubled the administrators? RC If you asked the administration, they would say that they believed in free speech too, but they felt that what he was asking for was free advocacy. In other words, you could talk about ideas but you couldn't advocate an off campus political activity or raise money for it. You could say, "Racism is bad," but you couldn't say, "Racism is bad so we are going to picket at that hotel across the Bay at 6:00 tomorrow and we want you all to come." That was the distinction that they made, and the reason they made this distinction was basically out of fear. Number one, they were afraid of the Legislature in Sacramento, where there were many conservatives who they didn't want to antagonize. Number two, they were afraid that these students could use their campus as a base for political advocacy, particularly advocating illegal protests which violate trespassing laws. The administration wanted to prevent the campus from becoming a base for a political operation. Students felt that the First Amendment should not be sacrificed on campus, that you should have the same rights on campus that you have off campus. Ultimately, the Supreme Court agreed with the students more than the administration on this point. The late sixties Tinker decision resulted in a very famous phrase, "You don't leave your constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gates." You still have a right to express yourself on campus. The only limitation that the Free Speech Movement accepted with regard to free speech is what they called "time, place and manner" regulations. They agreed to conduct free speech in a way that does not disrupt the work of the university. RC Yes, and having admitted that, I don't think he could completely blame the Free Speech Movement. It wasn't the students' job to take care that his administration was continued. That was his job. It may be that he didn't want to overrule the chancellor, but there are times when the guy under you makes a big mistake like this was, and you ought to overrule him. JJM It's also interesting that Kerr's philosophy in dealing with the demonstrators was more lenient than what Governor Pat Brown wanted. Brown urged him to use the campus police to remove the demonstrators who were sitting in Sproul Hall, whereas Kerr really wanted to just let it run its course. RC Kerr wanted to negotiate a settlement, at least with the police car sit-in. There was recently a story in the San Francisco Chronicle that suggested Kerr was the subject of a secret campaign by the FBI to get him fired. Kerr was not liked by FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, who didn't think Kerr was tough enough with what he called "the young punks" of the Free Speech Movement. There were people in the administration at the Berkeley campus who were more conservative and who wanted to go further with how the students were dealt with than Kerr did. I think it is true that while Kerr wanted to mediate, his first choice was not to use the police. When people write these autobiographical things they may be trying to defend themselves. There certainly may be truth to what he says, but to me the issue is why are you in this mess to begin with? Why is the issue of police on campus even there? The issue is there because of these very archaic regulations restricting freedom of speech on campus. That should never have happened. The bottom line is that he was adhering to policies that could easily have been changed, and this issue about backing the chancellor's bad decision turned out to be a mistake.
JJM In fact, there was a reluctance of many of the demonstrators to engage in the act of civil disobedience, such as the sit-in. RC Yes, these were students who had been raised to obey the law and it was difficult for many of them to break it. The thing that is impressive about those statements to the judge is that they really agonized about this. They weren't revolutionaries out to destroy the university, and that is why it was so upsetting to see themselves stereotyped that way.
JJM Yes, because the media at the time didn't focus so much on the issues, but on the unruly behavior of the kids. RC In addition to "red-baiting," there was what I would call "beatnik-baiting." They tried to stereotype the kids as unruly and unclean. Kate Coleman's essay in the book talks about how she was a fastidious dresser as a student during this era in part because she wanted to counter those stereotypes of the students as unkempt counter-cultural types. Although there was a little bit of a counter-culture element in the movement, this was 1964, so it was still a little early. It was not yet as it was in the late sixties, where men wore beards and long hair. In 1964, there wasn't quite yet the full counter-culture element.
JJM How did the way that women were treated within the Free Speech Movement serve as a sort of building block for the women's movement? RC The Free Speech Movement, like other parts of the new left -- for example the Student Non-Violent Co-ordinating Committee (SNCC) and the early SDS -- allowed women to participate, but did not really treat them completely as equals. Even though these movements were devoted to social change, they were still part of society, and American society in 1964 was still very much male dominated. So, while the female activists in the Free Speech Movement now reflect back on how sexist the Movement was, they didn't always have it in their mind at the time because it hadn't been raised until the women's movement of the seventies. But, I see the second wave of the women's movement in the late sixties and early seventies in part a reaction against the lack of gender equality in society, and also a lack of gender equality even within the movements attempting to change society, like SDS, SNCC and the Free Speech Movement. Many of the women who were political activists had their first experience in the Free Speech Movement, so some of the skills that they cultivated -- from learning how to speak in public to leafleting -- were learned in the Movement and transferred to a cause more fully devoted to gender equality. In that way I think it did contribute to the feminist movement, even though the movement itself was not free of sexism by any means. On the other hand, part of the critique which never got fully acted on because it was so controversial had to do with this overall connection of the university and the off campus world economically. In other words, the question was raised concerning whether the university should be continuing to conduct research for the defense establishment and for private companies. Some of the reformers in the Free Speech Movement and their successors began to ask those questions. But even though they were asking those questions and protesting against these connections, they found it was much harder to do something about. If you look at this issue today, the connections between the university and the business community and the military are closer than ever, so this is one area where the Free Speech Movement and the reform movement that came out of it did not succeed. However, you could say that there are many more places where students now at least get consulted where they did not in 1964. For example, at California a student sits on the Board of Regents, and students now sit on many university committees. That is an outgrowth of the Free Speech Movement.
JJM What is Mario Savio's legacy? RC I think his legacy is that he showed that college students could be politically engaged, and could make a difference in trying to battle things like racism and standing up for free speech. He showed that it was possible for students to play a role in changing society. I must point out that there is also a negative side to that. Many people felt that the student movement was simply some kind of nihilistic revolt, and thought that any kind of protest was okay regardless of the tactics used. So, part of what Mario's legacy on the positive side was modeling non-violent and determined protest. However, when conservative critics look at the Free Speech Movement, they may misunderstand his intent and instead see a more violent and radical history. So, in fairness I feel I need to mention that because otherwise we would think that everyone supports what the Free Speech Movement was about when in fact it has plenty of critics. JJM I was going to ask you if you have considered writing a biography of Mario Savio, but in many ways you have here with this book. RC At the request of Mario's widow, Lynn Hollander Savio, I am editing his papers, so I am working on his speeches and writings. That in turn may lead to a biography. He is definitely someone who merits one.
He had this gift for speaking, but was in conflict over how you deal with a movement where it is said all are equal when it comes to speaking, but some people are more equal than others. Consequently, there is a conflict between his own political egalitarianism, and his having all these skills and gifts. I think that tension, that he didn't want to be in the spotlight, caused him to ultimately step down from a leading role in activism a year after the Free Speech Movement. He made a return of sorts in the nineties when he felt the gains of the sixties were being threatened by the right, and he realized his gift for oratory could be used for good things. JJM What do you hope to achieve with this book? RC For unknown reasons, the Free Speech Movement has been pretty much neglected by historians since the sixties. There has not really been a scholarly book on the Movement in a quarter of a century. So, we wanted to put the Movement back on the agenda of historians since we feel this is a very pivotal event in 20th century American protest, and in the history of the sixties. People tend to look back on the sixties and find only the stereotypes of drug-induced students burning down buildings. They don't necessarily look at the decade in a serious light. What is frequently seen is a tradition on the right of looking at the sixties only to indict the people involved in such activism. Our hope is for readers to look at what the sixties were in a more serious way, and to think about the tradition of dissent in America. That is one hope for the book. The other hope is to speak to a broader public about the value of the university, the value of freedom of speech, and the meaning of movements for social change. It is important, especially now with the crisis of war upon us, to cherish the value of freedom of speech, and voice our dissent even if the opinions may be unpopular. No view should be prevented from being spoken. No matter what situation we are in -- war or peace -- we should think twice about someone who is telling us that we can't voice our opinions. There is a quote from Diogenes at the beginning of the book that says, "The most beautiful thing in the world is the freedom of speech." Possessing the freedom to air our opinions is not something you do just because it is tactically good for your side, but because, as Mario Savio said, "It represents the very dignity of what a human being is…That is what marks us off from the stones and stars…It is the thing that marks us as just below the angels."
____________________
Reflections on Berkeley in the 1960's Edited by Robert Cohen and Reginald Zelnik
* Text of Mario Savio's December 3, 1964 speech "We have an autocracy which runs this university. It's managed. We asked the following: if President Kerr actually tried to get something more liberal out of the Regents in his telephone conversation, why didn't he make some public statement to that effect? And the answer we received -- from a well-meaning liberal -- was the following: He said, "Would you ever imagine the manager of a firm making a statement publicly in opposition to his board of directors?" That's the answer! Now, I ask you to consider: if this is a firm, and if the Board of Regents are the board of directors, and if President Kerr in fact is the manager, then I'll tell you something: the faculty are a bunch of employees, and we're the raw material! But we're a bunch of raw material[s] that don't mean to have any process upon us, don't mean to be made into any product, don't mean to end up being bought by some clients of the University, be they the government, be they industry, be they organized labor, be they anyone! We're human beings! "There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part; you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all! Now, no more talking. We're going to march in singing "We Shall Overcome." Slowly; there are a lot of us. Up here to the left -- I didn't mean the pun..."
________________________________ Robert Cohen products at Amazon.com
_______________________________
Interview took place on September 23, 2002 *
If you enjoyed this interview, you may want to read our interview with Pulitzer Prize winning author Diane McWhorter on the Civil Rights Movement.
* Other Jerry Jazz Musician interviews
|
